LoveToKnow Plussize:AllComments

From LoveToKnow Plussize

Comments

Thanks for commenting, Krista!

-- Contributed by: Del Sandeen

"Many plus size belly dancers use sport bras which they cover with veils."

Um ... no, we don't. Not ever. At least not in public.

-- Contributed by: krista

Hi Giselle. Thank you for your comment. However, we'd first like to point out that plus sizes begin at 14, so full figured women come in a range of sizes. Also, since we get many of our images on this site licensed from istockphoto.com, that is where we acquired the photo accompanying this article. The photographer's name is Mark Hatfield and we have been given permission to use this image for our site as well as several others of this particular model.

-- Contributed by: Del Sandeen

I am very concerned with the photo displayed with this advertisement. The model is NOT plus sized, and also this picture of her was posted WITHOUT her KNOWLEDGE or PERMISSION! What a surprize it was for me to see one of my troupe members on your site. How unethical. I will encourage my troupe not to financially support this site.

-- Contributed by: Giselle

Hi Shira, Thank you for the information! We've updated the previous Angel Fire links to Bellydance Plus!

-- Contributed by: Del Sandeen

Thank you very much for linking to several pages of my "Belly Dancing for Full-Figured Women" web site on angelfire. I'm writing to let you know that the site has moved and been given a complete makeover, including updates to the costuming-related pages. It is now named "Bellydance Plus!" and can be found at bellydanceplus dot com.

Would you please consider updating your links? Again, thanks so much for letting people know about the resources available on my site!

--Shira

-- Contributed by: An update to some of your links!

Thank you, Maree. Your comment was very insightful and points out that belly dancing may mean different things to different dancers, but it's still valid and beautiful for each.

-- Contributed by: Del Sandeen

In response to K.D.'s commnet....Belly Dance is for the women herself to consider what is appropriate and not appropriate.....

Much of my belly dance costuming comes straight from my wardrobe and adapted and vice versa...

Sometimes I dance for the pure joy of self, and other times I dance with others, and at other times I perform on stage.

There is in my opinion nothing in the least bit wrong suggesting that sex or at least sensuality is connected to belly dance....

Belly Dance has a long history of keeping women amused in harems, of dancing to entice men, to tell stories to dancing for worship and often a fusion of belly dance emerges for most dancers.

I find many women "alluring" or "attractive" in their moves if not "hypnotic". My own husband enjoys my dancing for performance on stage and enjoys the difference in notable style when I dance for him in private...

Many women like to feel alluring and attractive, please don't suggest that because it may be the furthererst thing from your mind that it is the same for all women...

Belly dance is done for many reasons and each women shuld be empowered and allowed to engage the art of bellydancing as each see fit..

Of course I mean no disrespect to you K.D. and appreciate and accept what dancing is for you - I hope that you will consider allowing dancing to be whatever it is for other women, including being allowed to be sexy and alluring...

-- Contributed by: Maree Long

Gee, thanks for the revision of the article. BUT, by your editing and even removal of some of the comments posted by bellydancers, your apology comes across as way less than sincere.

-- Contributed by: Anyanka

Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment on this article that it was erroneously categorized under lingerie. Thank you for your input. We have recategorized and edited the article where it was appropriately needed. We are sorry if it offended some visitors.

-- Contributed by: MaryBethAdomaitis

I can hardly believe what I read - someone actually stating that belly dance costuming could be used as lingerie? What do you think we are - sex slaves with nothing better to do than prance around and attract men? Yikes, how long have you been spewing this garbage? As a plus size woman and belly dancer, yes I like to dance, yes I like to make or buy belly dance costuming, but a big resounding NO to the idea that my dancing has anything to do with being sexy and alluring. It may look that way to those who have no idea what belly dancing is all about, but that is not why it is done. I dance because I enjoy it, regardless of who is watching, and because I have a host of female friends who are all inspirations to me. Being "sexy" or "alluring" is the furthest thing from my mind. What a disservice you are doing to women by trying to connect belly dancing to sex.

But you are correct, overall, in that as full figured women, some of us do desire more coverage in certain areas of our bodies and we either buy or make costumes to reflect this. And yes, there are certain things we should or should not do to emphasize or de-emphasize those things we wish to enhance or cover.

Please fix your information and get rid of any notion that belly dancing is for the purpose of being sexy and alluring, as it is extremely degrading to all women everywhere, but especially my belly dancing sisters.

-- Contributed by: K.D.

WOW!! This article is not only horribly degrading to the beautiful, graceful, fulfilling dance genre we call Belly Dance, but it is a toxic, backhanded attack on the very women to whom you are directing your sales pitch!!

"You can avoid making your big hips look even bigger";"...cover a big or jiggly tummy."; Belly dance bras may not be big enough or have enough support for the full-figured dancer."

We know what we want to show and what we want to cover. Not every woman who wears a size 5 or above feel the need to buy into the ugly notion that they have to cover every inch of their skin.

You should also do some research into the true Belly Dance world. For starters, it came from middle eastern countries where women and men are segregated during their gatherings (weddings and such other events). The dance came into being as women began dancing as a form of entertainment (you can only talk about your kids and grandkids for so long). It has NOTHING to do with sex and the titillation of men. That would be pole dancing and lap dancing et.al. It is much bigger than that. It is about female empowerment, being in touch with your soul, being one with the music of the universe and the sensuality of it all. It is beautiful and soul quenching. It is expression and story telling. You really must check it out for yourselves. You will be pleasantly surprised. take a class and learn a little.

As for Fat Chance Belly Dance, you really need to go to their website and read the article that tells how the name came into being.

-- Contributed by: Joy

Please do not use belly dance costuming as a subcategory of lingerie. While I'm sure there are people who would be happy to dance and perform in their lingerie you will not find a belly dancer in the bunch. Belly dance costuming needs its own category with subcategories of full-coverage costumes, bedlah, skirts, accessories, props. If it must be a subcategory then it is much better suited listed under Plus-Size Living than Lingerie. The classic belly dance costume consists of a bedlah, a beaded bra-style top and belt set (not a bra as you suggest in your article) and is brought to us from the golden age of Hollywood. You will never find a belly dancer dancing in her bra. Also many dancers love to accent the hips and make them look wider. Wider hips equal a more narrow waist. You may even see dancers accent the sides of the hips with veils or the hems of the skirt tucked into the hip band to create extra flounce. The hips are an integral part of the dance and should be shown off, not covered.

Really shame on you. I notice you listed hospital gowns under Plus-size Living. Really? I would have thought that would fall under sleepwear and lingerie.

Many plus-size dancers that wish to cover their bellies when wearing bedlah will use a one piece body suit with beautiful lace designs. A link to your lingerie section when mentioning this would be very appropriate.

It is never appropriate for a belly dancer to dance in a bra with a few sequins or beads sewn on. For practice a supportive sports bra may be okay but never for a performance. Large size cabaret style bedlah can be custom made or the dancer can learn to take a good supportive bra to use as a base for her own beautiful dance top. To suggest a few sequins and beads sewn onto a bra make an acceptable costume top is an insult to those of use who design and create our own acceptable costumes.

Finger cymbals: Zills, zagat, or castanets are not a prop or accessory. They are a percussion instrument and should be treated as such. Without proper education on creating the tones and learning the rhythms the dancer is doing nothing more than creating conflict with her drummer or the music. You could add wigs, headbands, hair jewelry, necklaces, bindi, and make-up to your accessory list.

I do appreciate what you're trying to do here but you've stepped off track just a bit. Belly dance is a wonderful way for a plus-size woman to learn to love herself and accept herself. It is not another venue for her to cover herself in case someone gets offended at the site of little fat roll. I am a plus-size semi-professional dancer. My hips measure 44", my waist 39". I wear bedlah, circle skirts, mermaid skirts... everything my smaller dance sisters wear. And I wear it proudly. My body has learned to move in fabulous ways since I started dancing and I'm not about to hide it or encourage any other dancer to hide hers.

I am offended by the placement of belly dance costuming on your site. I certainly hope it was a mistake and will be corrected poste-haste.

Thank you.

-- Contributed by: Debra

I am very dismayed that you have linked two web sites that I created to the unfortunate idea that belly dancing is nothing more than prancing around the bedroom in one's underwear. I am the creator of both Shira.net and the Belly Dancing For Full-Figured Women web sites, and I am very unhappy that you have equated belly dance costumes to lingerie.

Belly dance costumes are professional attire for women who perform a family-oriented dance form in public. We long-time dancers have worked hard to educate the public that this dance form originated as a social dance that families do at happy family occasions such as weddings.

It damages our dance form when people like you insinuate that belly dancing is nothing more than bedroom games. Please, stop. In doing this, you are perpetuating a damaging stereotype that makes it difficult for dancers, to obtain opportunities to share the joy of our dance form in public. In other words, by linking belly dancing to lingerie, you are making it more difficult for plus-sized belly dance students to perform at county fairs, nursing homes, city festivals, and other family-oriented events. You are damaging the very people you claim you are trying to help. This makes me very sad.

I think it's great that belly dancing in general can make plus-sized women feel beautiful, and I do like recommending this dance form to plus-sized women for that reason. In that, you and I agree. Women of all sizes can look beautiful, not only wearing belly dance costumes but also performing this dance.

Please consider removing mention of lingerie from this article, and please consider moving this article to some corner of lovetoknow that is NOT lingerie-oriented. Please. If you have any respect for this dance form, the joy it can bring plus-sized women, and the work I have done to create two web sites that you liked enough to link to, please don't reduce our dance form to the image of people prancing around the bedroom in their underwear.

If you don't respect belly dancing enough to honor my request to disassociate it from sex games, then please remove both of my web sites, Shira.net and Belly Dancing For Full-Figured Women, from your list of links. I do not want either of my web sites associated with your claims that belly dance costumes are the same thing as lingerie.

-- Contributed by: Shira, owner of Shira.net

Lingerie is underwear: bras, panties, hose, etc. You are equating belly dance costuming with underwear. Belly dance costuming was inspired by ball gowns and musical costumes of the 1940s to today. So, in a way, you're equating underwear with black tie party formal wear...not a smart move!

-- Contributed by: Mari

Obviously you did NO research before posting this offensive article. Belly dance costumes are NOT lingerie!! It is highly inappropriate to suggest that a t-shirt and shorts or a sports or plain lingerie bra are acceptable costumes. You are perpetuating the myth that belly dance is "hoochie koochie". SHAME ON YOU!! I hope the entire belly dance community slams you for your ignorance!

-- Contributed by: Christiana

You have everything all wrong. we're not strippers and our costumes have nothing to do with lingerie! and a bellydance costume is not a tshirt and some bike shorts. that's for practicing, NOT performing. we're not something for men to drool over, we dance to worship the ground, mother earth, and each other as sisters, brothers and family. we dance to have fun and to teach the world about soul and love and community. it's something for all ages, for all sizes. we're women and we're proud.

-- Contributed by: Kasumi

Wow. Not only was your wording insulting to bellydancers, it's insulting to plus-sized women as well. "Making your big hips look even bigger," what?

Yes, bellydance is for women of all sizes. But if you think our art form is just about sex and displaying yourself for someone, you're really, really off base. From talking about dressing for your body type to talking about bellydance to talking about the intricacies (and costs!) of costuming . . . You're doin' it wrong.

-- Contributed by: Ran

Belly dance costumes are NOT lingerie! A t-shirt, tights, and three yards of chiffon is NOT a belly dance costume. And your link to "Naughty Lingerie" is a sad, ignorant statement about how little you know about belly dancing and belly dancers of all sizes. Shame, shame on you!

-- Contributed by: Khamara

This really irks me to no end, for the same reason my grandfather calls my art "hoochie-coochie". This does not help end the stero-types that bellydancers are strippers, or toys for men. It is articles like this that make me die a little inside when I explain I'm a student of middle eastern dance and the person I'm speaking to replies with "Oh? You mean belly dance?" Followed by a lewd look.

-- Contributed by: Nadeau

I think you missed the mark here. Rather then saying that belly dance attire is good for lingerie, maybe a better focus would be how amazing belly dance makes you feel. If your goal is to point out the benefits of belly dance where the bedroom is concerned, maybe point out the outrageous confidence it gives a woman or the awareness of her body and femininity.

Also, whoever said that throwing a few coins/sequins on a bra-especially a SPORTS BRA has never had a good example of costuming. My teacher and troop mates would (THANK GOD) beat me if I did something like that. Please put together a REAL costume if you're going to perform. I promise you will look and feel better about yourself. If you're plus sized check out Belliphat for some cool stuff.

-- Contributed by: xira

This is a really unfortunate article. I think it's sad to try to turn the costume of a serious art form into nothing more than "sexy outfits." Do you promote wearing ballet costumes as lingerie? Bellydance has come a long way but still has miles and miles to go to be understood and accepted as the art that it is. Bellydancers are not strippers. Certainly the dance celebrates the sensuality of the female form, but it is not about sex. It has a very long, very colorful history derived from so many facinating cultures, and reducing it to a "sexy dance" scoffs in the face of the hundreds of thousands of women who have performed this dance throughout history. Bellydancers are so affected by the sex stigma that people attempt to attach to the artform that some are afraid to dance under their real names, or to even mention it as a hobby. Please be more considerate in your portrayal of our dance and our costumes, because this is not flattering. I hope that your readers will be enticed to sign up in classes and learn about the DANCE, and not just how wearing a decorated bra might turn on their man.

-- Contributed by: teppuM

I think you do a disservice to professional bellydancers with this article. You imply that the harem fantasy is all there is to bellydance. It is an art form that requires training and dedication to perform.

Well and good if plus size women want to play dress up with some chiffon veils, etc. but bellydance costumes are not lingerie. We are not strippers. And most bellydance costumes would be very uncomfortable in bed, lol. Coins and sequins scratch! Even a play costume would require a fair amount of material and sewing skill.

-- Contributed by: Patricia

As has been stated--and I dearly hope, noted--bellydance is not the coochie-coo or a striptease. While the dance itself, in its many forms and incarnations, may certainly be termed 'exotic', there is nothing in the hours of training, the dedication, or the hard work we put into it that can make it as cheap or titillating as you have termed it here.

To suggest that bellydance costume belongs in the bedroom is like suggesting that a kid in a ninja costume belongs on the police force. "The key to good bellydance" is in the work and joy put into it, not the costume worn for it.

A little research never hurts, either.

-- Contributed by: Namir

<... yet another dancer speaks up>

I'm disappointed to find that you treat our art in such a fashion. Please research the styles and purpose and who we are before lumping us into bed room category. We fight to not be sexual... we embrass that side of ourselves, but it is NOT why we dance. And the most beautiful dancers I know (and some of the best) are plus sized dancers, and they are proud of themselves... they don't use dancing as a way to enhancing their sexuality or their prowess. It comes from within... a confidence gained through support of her fellow dancers.

Secondly. good costumes are always expensive, either in materials or TIME. and they are never ever lingerie... they may have started as a bra... but they are not when we are done with them. Its a costume, they are for us to present our art in, not to prance around in a bed room. Thats disgusting. If I'm going to prance around in front of my man... I sure as hell won't do it in my costume. I'll go to Vickies for that thank you very much. The two are seperate entities. Period. It is insulting and extremly ignorant to consider otherwise

-- Contributed by: Basha

I am very offended by you comparing belly dancing costumes to lingerie. I spend an extreme amount of time and love in creating my costumes! We as belly dancers are constantly being compared to strippers by ignorant people! Belly dance has nothing to do with being sexy, it has everything to do with celebrating an ancient art form. Please consider rewriting this in reverence to the art that is belly dancing.

-- Contributed by: Lochana

Bellydance, for most of us is an art form and not something we do in the bedroom to excite our significant other. Unfortunately tagging "lingerie" with "bellydance" is of poor taste. I understand that the lingerie industry has costumes of all sorts...cheer leader, school girl, police officer, etc. and these are meant to be fantasy costumes. I suppose you would put an "I Dream of Genie" costume in there too. However, in this article you are combining the serious side of the art by listing legitimate Bellydance websites along with your "costume lingerie bellydance" websites. This is wrong.

Those of us who have taken years of lessons, studied the history of the dance and take our art form seriously, have been working hard in eliminating the stereotypical view of bellydance as being another form of "sexual" dance.

I think the problem here is that you have combined the "sex fantasy bellydancer" with the "artist bellydancer" and WE don't like it! So I would suggest that you choose the direction you are going with, be it "sexual" or "art" and not mix the two. Then you wouldn't have all of us artists in an uproar! Thanks!

-- Contributed by: Sanura

<<The alluring movement of the belly dancer and the seductive motion of the flowing veils make plus size belly dance costumes excellent additions to plus size women's lingerie wardrobes.>>

This is why people STILL think bellydancers are strippers. The dance community has been fighting this stereotype for years, and things like this just make the fight harder and harder. Bellydancing is NOT stripping, it is not just a dance of seduction, and costumes are NOT lingerie. Bellydancing is uplifting and builds confidence and poise, as a plus size woman myself, I find that it has helped me reinforce my own self love... HOwever, my costumes are not Lingerie, and when I step on stage, my point is not to seduce, but to entertain. My dance is for every person in the audience who wants to move, but doesn't. I dance for those who won't, who can't, who don't have the confidence to do it themselves. i'm not up there stripping, I'm uplifting, and hopefully inspiring.

Please think when wording things like this, dance costumes are NOT lingerie. If you wear lingerie and dance in it for fun, well thats up to you, but just being a bellydancer does not make one an exotic dancer, there are seperate classes for that.

Help us in our fight for legitimacy and respect here, respect yourselves and don't perpetuate stereotypes.

-- Contributed by: Saahira

"The alluring movement of the belly dancer and the seductive motion of the flowing veils make plus size belly dance costumes excellent additions to plus size women's lingerie wardrobes...."

I would like to state that I, as a dancer, find this statement highly offensive and erroneous. Regardless of size, belly dancers do NOT wear lingerie when dancing. We wear cholis, elaborately decorated dance bras and tie tops. We wear harem pants, circle skirts and panel skirts. Our costumes (not lingerie) are expensive to purchase and time consuming to make. Confusing them with lingerie or Halloween costume type pieces is a mark of ignorance with the dance itself as well as the dedicated women who dance it.

I request, respectfully, that you seriously consider rewriting this article to better reflect this art form.

Thank you.

-- Contributed by: Zeevah

To suggest that belly dance attire is lingerie is an insult to an ancient dance form and to belly dancers of all sizes.

-- Contributed by: Nebula

This is totally offensive. Shame on you!!!

This is exactly the thing we belly dancers are fighting against. Belly dance is not to be considered alluring/sexy, therefore do not advertise it as such; it is an art!!! If I were you, I'd change this page asap.

The belly dance community will not take this lightly.

-- Contributed by: raven fire

Bellydancing is a wonderful expression of self that women of all shapes and sizes can enjoy.

That being said, bellydance costumes are NOT lingerie! They are the attire for a legitimate dance form that all too often gets confused with stripping. Way to blur the lines further.

-- Contributed by: Raqabella

"The alluring movement of the belly dancer and the seductive motion of the flowing veils make plus size belly dance costumes excellent additions to plus size women's lingerie wardrobes."

Are you people kidding me??? Did ANY of you do ANY research on the history of bellydance and bellydance costuming??? A bellydance costume is not, and I repeat, IS NOT, lingerie. You have officially offended the world-wide community of, not only GODDESS size, bellydancers, but ALL bellydancers! The word is spreading and you will hear from us.

-- Contributed by: Anyanka

What a demeaning - not to mention ignorant - thing to say! Are you implying that all bellydance attire is only suitable for the bedroom, or merely that plus size women should be hidden away?! Either way, your comment shows a lack of respect for serious dance, and a dismissive and patronizing attitude toward plus size women in general. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I am deeply offended!!!

-- Contributed by: Taz
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